RUBY SIAMESE PROJECT
Introduction, Theories, Appearance, Outcross Testing
Due to the nature of this project, there will not be availability from this line
Introduction
Ruby Siamese popped up in my rattery for the first time in January of 2018 in a litter of only 2. I was still new to breeding and genetics, but they stood out to me even then. They reminded me of South African Sable Siamese, though that wasn't possible, since importation from South Africa is illegal. Nonetheless, I held these rats back and began documenting. The female in particular was extremely dark. Comparable to a burmese. The male was dark. But not as dark as his sister. As adults, they unfortunately don't appear significantly different, slightly darker overall tone with broader, darker points, but not so significant that they are as easily identifiable as when they are babies. This may be due to simple selection, and this is something we will continue to test as more are born and we obtain some consistency.
Originally, besides the overall body tone, another defining feature was their dark ruby eyes. So dark that it was difficult to tell them apart from black eyes. That is where the name came. Originally, these were called Ruby Eyed Siamese, but the farther into this project we got, the less descriptive the name became, particularly since normal siamese can have ruby eyes without having these same genetics, so the name was shortened to Ruby Siamese, until something better is decided.
The Ruby Siamese project is still ongoing, but we are learning more with each test breeding and as of 2020, we are finally beginning to see consistent results!
For quite some time, it was difficult to conclude much of anything. Even the most basic question, dominant or recessive proved to be difficult to answer. Originally, I thought it was recessive, and treated it as such, but it didnt work like a normal recessive. When pairing 2 Ruby Siamese siblings together, a normal recessive would produce 100% Ruby babies. But it didnt. In fact, it only produced one. Recently, with an outcross (that wasnt even meant to be part of this project), it seems to have acted as a dominant, since the male was unrelated to this line, but produced several (5) dark offspring with ruby eyes. These rats went on found our current line, the Bonnie Line, further explained below.
Furthermore, my original Ruby line, which was pretty limited due to several rats proving infertile, as of 5/20, appears to have lost the gene. Instead, it seems it has survived, by some miracle, through an old pairing between Chihiro and Toast. Several litters in the original line, unfortunately seems to be unsuccessful, with the siamese offspring not showing the desired traits. The second line, called the Bonnie Line, has produced several offspring with the desired traits. In August '20, it was decided that the original line would be dissolved, with the remaining females going on to establish a colony of black eye siamese, and will eventually have Ruby Siamese males added to further darken them.
This is an ongoing project that I will record as we learn more. Below you will find information on what we have already been able to gather, along with a timeline of test breedings. The next couple of pages will cover the details and breedings of the line in its entirety.
Originally, besides the overall body tone, another defining feature was their dark ruby eyes. So dark that it was difficult to tell them apart from black eyes. That is where the name came. Originally, these were called Ruby Eyed Siamese, but the farther into this project we got, the less descriptive the name became, particularly since normal siamese can have ruby eyes without having these same genetics, so the name was shortened to Ruby Siamese, until something better is decided.
The Ruby Siamese project is still ongoing, but we are learning more with each test breeding and as of 2020, we are finally beginning to see consistent results!
For quite some time, it was difficult to conclude much of anything. Even the most basic question, dominant or recessive proved to be difficult to answer. Originally, I thought it was recessive, and treated it as such, but it didnt work like a normal recessive. When pairing 2 Ruby Siamese siblings together, a normal recessive would produce 100% Ruby babies. But it didnt. In fact, it only produced one. Recently, with an outcross (that wasnt even meant to be part of this project), it seems to have acted as a dominant, since the male was unrelated to this line, but produced several (5) dark offspring with ruby eyes. These rats went on found our current line, the Bonnie Line, further explained below.
Furthermore, my original Ruby line, which was pretty limited due to several rats proving infertile, as of 5/20, appears to have lost the gene. Instead, it seems it has survived, by some miracle, through an old pairing between Chihiro and Toast. Several litters in the original line, unfortunately seems to be unsuccessful, with the siamese offspring not showing the desired traits. The second line, called the Bonnie Line, has produced several offspring with the desired traits. In August '20, it was decided that the original line would be dissolved, with the remaining females going on to establish a colony of black eye siamese, and will eventually have Ruby Siamese males added to further darken them.
This is an ongoing project that I will record as we learn more. Below you will find information on what we have already been able to gather, along with a timeline of test breedings. The next couple of pages will cover the details and breedings of the line in its entirety.
GO TO: TIMELINE
GO TO: BONNIE LINE
Characteristics
EYESEyes dark ruby. Photo compares two siblings. Note these are from the same litter. Same lighting, camera settings, and age at time of photo. Notice how dark the eyes are in the rat on top compared to her brother on bottom. The ruby eyes are nearly black, while the other is an obvious red. The eyes remain dark through most of adulthood, although they seem to lighten a bit after a year old, though they are still darker than their normal red eyed counterparts.
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COLORRuby Siamese are significantly darker than normal siamese, especially as babies. Even compared to black eyed siamese, who should be darker, as the black eye gene darkens color. Ruby Siamese look similar to burmese as babies up until their adult molt. Agouti based Ruby Siamese look similar to marten around the 2-3 week mark, with light whisker beds. Typically, Agouti Point is washed out on standard Siamese, these babies are much darker than even nice black eye siamese! They also develop points sooner!
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Theories
We have spoken to several breeders around the world who work with the c-locus gene. We have discussed possibilities and there are several theories, however, none have proven to be likely, and most have been disproved as a cause.
Sable Siamese - There were some breeders from south Africa and the states who posed that they appeared similar to South African Sable Himalayan or Siamese, however, I feel comfortable ruling this possibility out due to the fact that there have simply not been any importation of South African rats (due to an unfounded fear of Monkey Pox, importation from Africa is not legal) so it is unlikely that one happened to make it's way to a feeder bin in the states, and without being able to import, we also cannot definitively test breed against this gene.
Siamese Sable - There have been several breeders who compare these rats to Siamese Sable, or Tonkinese, a variety first discovered in Texas not long ago. However, Ruby Siamese only Resemble Tonkinese as very young babies. By 2-3 weeks, they are entirely different, and by adulthood, they look almost nothing alike. Even light tonkinese look notably different as adults to Ruby Siamese.
Marked - Others have suggested that the darker color is due to the heavy markings, since most of the original Ruby Siamese were Whiteside. However, more recently, the majority of Ruby Siamese are self, and some of the normal siamese produced in this line have also been Whiteside, but had completely normal appearance for a normal siamese. Had markings been a cause, then there shouldnt be any self Ruby Siamese, nor should any of the marked offspring be normal color. So we can rule out markings as well.
Cold Temps - More still have stated that it is simply location based. Since Siamese is thermosensitive, meaning that the color darkens with colder temperature, so being in the northern part of the US, its unsurprising to have darker siamese. However, our summers still get into high temperatures. In the summer, my rats are kept in the 70s and still, they are dark. And in the winter, they are kept as low as 50 and my normal siamese are still significantly lighter than the Ruby Siamese. If temperature were the cause, all of my siamese should look the same, but they do not.
Lastly, as our most likely, yet open ended theory is that, similar to the black eye gene on the C-locus, the reason for the darker color is due to the darker, ruby eyes. The issue here is that the Ruby siamese are actually darker than black eye siamese, which, genetically shouldnt happen since ruby would still be a dilute and black eyed rats should be darker. If it were an affect of the color of the eyes, then I unfortunately cannot figure out what is causing this color. We have outcrossed to try and figure this out and will Chronicle that side project as it develops, but so far, it has not given any answers. Tested against black, russian blue, American blue and American mink, age inbred for many generations in an attempt to pull a different recessive that may be lurking have yielded no helpful results. To date, the only colors these lines have thrown are black and agouti.
Sable Siamese - There were some breeders from south Africa and the states who posed that they appeared similar to South African Sable Himalayan or Siamese, however, I feel comfortable ruling this possibility out due to the fact that there have simply not been any importation of South African rats (due to an unfounded fear of Monkey Pox, importation from Africa is not legal) so it is unlikely that one happened to make it's way to a feeder bin in the states, and without being able to import, we also cannot definitively test breed against this gene.
Siamese Sable - There have been several breeders who compare these rats to Siamese Sable, or Tonkinese, a variety first discovered in Texas not long ago. However, Ruby Siamese only Resemble Tonkinese as very young babies. By 2-3 weeks, they are entirely different, and by adulthood, they look almost nothing alike. Even light tonkinese look notably different as adults to Ruby Siamese.
Marked - Others have suggested that the darker color is due to the heavy markings, since most of the original Ruby Siamese were Whiteside. However, more recently, the majority of Ruby Siamese are self, and some of the normal siamese produced in this line have also been Whiteside, but had completely normal appearance for a normal siamese. Had markings been a cause, then there shouldnt be any self Ruby Siamese, nor should any of the marked offspring be normal color. So we can rule out markings as well.
Cold Temps - More still have stated that it is simply location based. Since Siamese is thermosensitive, meaning that the color darkens with colder temperature, so being in the northern part of the US, its unsurprising to have darker siamese. However, our summers still get into high temperatures. In the summer, my rats are kept in the 70s and still, they are dark. And in the winter, they are kept as low as 50 and my normal siamese are still significantly lighter than the Ruby Siamese. If temperature were the cause, all of my siamese should look the same, but they do not.
Lastly, as our most likely, yet open ended theory is that, similar to the black eye gene on the C-locus, the reason for the darker color is due to the darker, ruby eyes. The issue here is that the Ruby siamese are actually darker than black eye siamese, which, genetically shouldnt happen since ruby would still be a dilute and black eyed rats should be darker. If it were an affect of the color of the eyes, then I unfortunately cannot figure out what is causing this color. We have outcrossed to try and figure this out and will Chronicle that side project as it develops, but so far, it has not given any answers. Tested against black, russian blue, American blue and American mink, age inbred for many generations in an attempt to pull a different recessive that may be lurking have yielded no helpful results. To date, the only colors these lines have thrown are black and agouti.
OUTCROSS testing
Color Testing:
GENERATION 1: Paired Lyra to a black self buck carrying American Blue, Russian Blue. Produced 10 babies, all black, indicating Lyra is unlikely to be agouti and unlikely to carry American Blue or Russian Blue.
GENERATION 2: Paired 2 offspring, Pike and Betta, together. Babies arrived November 16, 2018. Normal red eye Siamese and black babies indicating Lyra likely didnt carry any other colors.
GENERATION 3: Paired 2 offspring of Gen 2, Cinnabun to Strudel. Pairing proved unsuccessful. Paired Cinnabun to Raven, who carries Russian Blue and American Mink. Produced all black babies.
Accidental pairing between Ruby Siamese doe and Tonkinese buck (siblings) produced an agouti offspring, which led to the discovery of Agouti among the Rubies. It had gone unknown since the beginning. Understanding this made several things much clearer, particularly the ticking.